John Meurig Thomas interviewed by Alan Macfarlane 29th November and 5th December 2007

0:09:07 Born in South Wales in a small mining village in 1932; maternal grandfather was a gardener in the Swansea valley and paternal grandfather was a farmer and engine driver in Carmarthan; father was a coal miner who worked his way up to being an overman which was the highest you could go without qualifications; he worked in an extremely lively village with lots of music and drama, also sport; father went to the First World War which influenced him profoundly; it was his university; he fought in Galipoli, the Somme, North Africa etc. [awarded the military medal for bravery in Gallipoli] ; he taught me a great deal; he had great linguistic skills but hopeless mathematically; there were five children and I was the last but one; my one brother [twelve years older] was also a coal miner all his life; two older sisters and a younger one who died of infantile paralysis aged eight; brought up the the Gwendraeth Valley where the coal mines run out and beyond which is the agricultural area; the setting of Dylan Thomas's 'Fern Hill'; what was so nice about Gwendraeth Grammar School was that there was a mingling of the sons and daughters of farmers and miners; big contrast, the former were lugubrious and slow while the latter were much more alert; it was a rugby school with four Welsh international players from there; teaching was excellent; brilliantly taught by a physics mistress, Irene James, who told me about Michael Faraday; I kept in touch with her until her death; she had the gift of not just telling us what physics was about but adding biographical details of great scientists; Michael Faraday became my hero; one of my greatest joys was much later to occupy the Chair that was created for him and to do the job that he did at one time as Director of the Royal Institution; Irene James was sitting in the front row for my inaugural lecture there; mother left school aged twelve; she had none of my father's linguistic skills; throughout her life she spoke to me in Welsh; my father decided when I was ten that my English was so attrocious and was petrified that I might not pass 11+ that from then on he spoke to me only in English and  expected me to answer in the same; mother one of nine children; she was shrewd and had a phenomenal memory which I think I have inherited; have found that some of the best scientist have amazing memories eg. Linus Pauling; I was also Welsh walking race champion and played cricket for the University of Wales; a reluctant rugby player but played first class cricket for South Wales and Monmouthshire until I became a professor;  chapels in South Wales marvellous places for choral music [and for outstanding preachers]; at about six heard the choir sing 'The Creation'; at an early age took a great interest in bird watching encouraged by my father; also collected birds eggs but very responsibly, only taking one egg when there were five or six; Welsh words for birds; also read Mee's "Children's Encyclopedia" where I pondered on a writer, Dorothy Crowfoot, who turned out to be Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin the Nobel Prize winner; got to know her very well and told her how she had influenced me as a child; J.B.S. Haldane also influenced me; he was an ardent Communist and wrote articles in the 'Daily Worker'; in the barber's shop where I grew up the local Communist, one of several passionate, well-informed individuals, would deliver the 'Daily Worker' free of charge every morning to the three barber's shops; there I read Haldane's scientific articles; one, on being the right size, another on the atmosphere of planets; he induced my interest in science a great deal

13:05:10 Up until school certificate in 1949 I did not really know what I wanted to do; R.A. Butler's Education Act of 1944 meant that I could go to school free; when I started Grammar School my father had to pay; at 'A' level I enjoyed myself; had done quite well in geography, English literature, physics and mathematics and I wanted to do physics, mathematics and geography; the headmaster decreed that the timetable would not allow that so told to take chemistry; only pupil in that class, during the first hour would talk about rugby and the second would do chemistry; read an extremely important book by Eric James, later Lord Rushholme, then chemistry master at Winchester, 'Problems in Physical Chemistry'; found the academic life of the sixth form exhilarating; went to Swansea University where I was also extremely well taught by people appointed by John S. Fulton, later Vice-Chancellor of the University of Sussex, who really understood what universities were about; he was really inspiring; first year students had to write essays on broad subjects fortnightly, and then, four at a time, read them to him and have an hour's conversation; impressive that he took the time to do this; also every Tuesday afternoon each first year student had to go into the largest lecture theatre to hear such persons as Isaah Berlin speak; so in a small provincial college had a first class education

20:41:04 Chemistry is a pretty central subject as it sits within natural sciences so that you can look at the biological world, the medical world, the physical world and earth science; I am a physical chemist by description but I do my work these days in an area called catalysis; in a literal sense there is something magical about a catalyst which has the ability to accelerate the combination of two or more reagents and give you a product; not only that but there is a knack associated with designing a catalyst such that it gives you a particular product; my job is to design a solid, a crystal usually, where I have "placed" a group of atoms which, when they are exposed to an incoming reactant they convert it to a desirable product; nylon at present is produced in a very environmentally harmful way, from oil and benzine, then concetrated nitric acid, sulphuric acid etc.; for very kilogram of nylon you produce four kilograms of waste; with a post-doctoral worker produced a "green" sythesis of nylon, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (US); this does not mean that the manufacture has been changed as I was doing this as an intellectural excercise and a proof of the value of laboratory chemistry; dislike of patents although I have taken some out; I have often been supported in my work by big companies; the Bayer company saw my work in Cambridge and were extremely interested; I sent my post-doctoral worker over to Germany where they have excellent facilities; German chemistry is the best in the world and the big German companies have been dominant; Bayer liked what we were doing and filed patents in our name; most of my work has been sponsored by the Science Research Council or Engineering and Physical Science Research Council or by the University, but from time to time because of the nature of my work as it is immediately applicable in industry, I have got grants from companies towards research but refuse to sell out to multinationals; fear big companies linking themselves to prestigious universities such as Cambridge and trading on the connection; the duty of the university is primarily to pursue knowledge and exploit it; of course, have to be realistic as big companies pay taxes that sustain our universities; rules are much clearer in America; embedded research institutes like those funded by Microsoft and BP in Cambridge have access to all seminars within the university but the university does not have access to all of theirs; I am disturbed by this; experience of one of my old students who found himself lecturing to just such a mission-oriented multinational group when he had expected to be giving an open lecture

33:47:00 After finishing my PhD which I did in Queen Mary College, London, as my supervisor, Keble Sykes, went there; I then stupidly joined the Atomic Energy Authority and worked in the atomic weapons research establishment; I need not have gone into a reserved occupation as all those who had graduated with first class honours were excussed; somehow struck by the idea that the equipment side at Aldermaston was so good that I would enjoy myself there; even after a few weeks I realized that this was the wrong place to be; I am ambivalent at best about atomic weapons and didn't want to be there; got an assistant lectureship at Bangor; delightful to immerse myself in North Wales culture; my Welsh improved enormously; signed up for the extra-mural courses and lectured at evening venues; for two years running I gave a twenty-five lecture course on the history and evolution of science; enjoyed lecturing to school children in both English and Welsh; was allowed freedom of research; at one stage Bangor had five fellows of the Royal Society which was pretty good for a provincial university; I left when a new professor came and it was obvious that he wanted to starve me of research students and even stop me doing research; he wanted these students for his own research; by that stage I was a Reader, which I had become aged thirty-two, and had done some good work, winning the Corday-Morgan prize for the best chemical research for a person under the age of thirty-six; also an award from American Carbon Society; got the Chair at Aberystwyth which was an exhilarating period of my life; it was a well-organised department with a Principal and Registrar who were very able; also able to attract people from Cambridge, Oxford, India, Japan, Russia - I built up a department of solid state chemistry which was probably the best in the world; invited to take professorships at Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Edinburgh and London, but wasn't interested because I was so happy there; my children spoke Welsh, bird watching was wonderful, my wife was doing a higher degree in comparative religion; I was intending to stay there for the rest of my life but then I heard that Cambridge was going to offer me a professorship; agonised over it fearing I might drown in Cambridge, so full of extraordinary people; would my children be happy as my younger daughter, aged six at that time, spoke no English; we came, and it was one of the best things I ever did

42:45:11 I came to King's in 1978; loved the elderly people who sat in the Combination Room before dinner: Meyer Fortes, Clifford Derby, Kendall Dixon, Braithwaite, Christopher Morris, Patrick Wilkinson, Michael Jaffe - all befriended me; Dan Brown persuaded me to come as I knew very little about Cambridge; I had lectured in the metallurgy department in March 1974; I walked up from the Backs towards King's and couldn't believe how beautiful the place was; I could have gone to three or four other colleges but Mansell Davies at Aberystwyth stressed the quality of the music at King's; the Provost, Edmund Leach, was a strange man; met him first with Dan Brown and Martin Rees; Hal Dixon and wife's Christmas parties; Charlie Loke; Tom White; Bernhard Williams; Sidney Brenner; Gabriel Horn and I were admitted the same night; Patrick Bateson; thought at first some of the younger fellows who were very left-wing were what I would describe as cocktail party socialists; had been brought up with true socialists; found that mingling with people in other subjects valuable; wonderful music in chapel where Philip Ledger was then in charge followed by Stephen Cleobury who is a friend to this day; David Willcocks